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- Hillbilly Jim and Kevin Nash downtalking high flying like AJ Styles/Young Bucks
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Do they have a point? - Results (51 votes)
Yes they have a point.
33.33%
17
No they are wrong.
60.78%
31
I don't know
5.88%
3
All these guys talking about how cool it is doing these amazing crazy bumps. IT's SUPPOSED TO BE ENTERTAINMENT. If you can't figure out a way to entertain people without killing yourself then maybe you need to get out the business. That's why they're all running around here with (broken) hips and all weird looking and stuff like that. I ain't got none of that.' ~ Hillbilly Jim 'When you watch a tape back of Chief Jay Strongbow's work it wasn't like.... but you know what, I've never seen a tape where he drops his fucking hands back and starts doing his shit I don't see people sitting on their asses. So to me it's just like, that was still the era of ... he's getting away. He's over and he's not doing shit. So obviously he knows. He's getting a response and he ain't doing shit! So fucking pony up to him! For me to come up to tell you somethin' like 'Ahh when you're doing that fucking Chinese fucking whatever you guys do, when you roll around and do that shit, I don't think you're doing it right.' I wouldn't fucking know! When it got to the era of the 'I grab you, you flip me' and it just looks like two guys from circus soleil tumbling routine and you can see they are just obviously see they are helping each other through the movements, at what point do you go 'Alright I can't chain wrestle but that fucking blows!' I mean just from the standpoint that I was a mark at one point and I would not fucking watch that" ~ Kevin Nash Take a look at the big names of the generation. Bryan - Forced into early retirement due to mass concussions from constant high spot bumps. CM Punk - Was asked to stop doing the diving Elbow because it was wrecking his body, refused because he needed it to stay over. That and other high spots left him laundry list of injuries including a broken back he was not even aware of. Left his body so wrecked that he cant even fight anymore. Rollins - Accused of being a danger to himself and others with his high-risk high spot mass bump style where he damn near kills himself and his opponent in every big match he ever has to get half the reaction Rikishi used to get when he rubbed his ass across someone's face. Injuring Balor during his big break due to highspots. Meanwhile in NXT and Indy Feds around the world, the new idea of how to become big appears to be 'Add more flips and crazy shit that makes people go WOW while you jump through tables onto your head' What is left for a Apolo Crews, AJ Styles, Kalisto if they was not allowed high-spots? Nothing most likely. On the other hand, the young guys not doing high spots every single week, like Sandow or Dillinger, wrestled for over a decade and no one cares about them. So? Are they right? Worth noting that Jim is 65+ and is still in pretty good shape. Amazingly good for a pro-wrestler, who in recent years are lucky if they reach 60. Also Interesting as well that he talks about how Wrestlers back in the day used to work so hard and frustrate theselves so much that they would drive themselves so crazy that they eventually just give up and go home. Guess Ryback and Punk were nothing new. Does he have a point? Are the 'wrestlers' who rely on high-spots not as talented as the ones who don't need them? Or has the business just changed so you need high-spots to make people care. And 'psychology' or 'character' now means about as much as whether or not Cole's wife eats an apple or a pear for breakfast. Made this topic a year or so ago. Wondering what the PWB thinks now.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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If you can't figure out a way to entertain people without killing yourself then maybe you need to get out the business. That's why they're all running around here with (broken) hips and all weird looking and stuff like that. I ain't got none of that.' ~ Hillbilly Jim
In fairness, Hillbilly Jim was never entertaining.
Live action Hungry Hungry Hippos though, now that was a sport. ~Aeon Azuran
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Maze_ posted...
What is left for a Apolo Crews, AJ Styles, Kalisto if they was not allowed high-spots? Nothing most likely. Lol at putting AJ Styles there |
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Stover46 posted...
Maze_ posted...What is left for a Apolo Crews, AJ Styles, Kalisto if they was not allowed high-spots? Nothing most likely. What makes you say that? Aside from some of the 205 live guys I don't think there is a wrestler in WWE who does more High Spots than AJ Styles. Who would you say does?
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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Coming from Nash who tears his quad walking. I wouldn't take his advice.
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High spots are like hardcore. Dudes with little in the way of charisma have to do something to get over.
Yes, there are exceptions like Raven, however think the point stands. But lol @ Nash and Jim talking about this. Nash can't even walk right and he's dissecting dudes who do 450s.
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Nash shouldn't be talking. You can't say high spots are dangerous when people told you not to power bomb Big Show (The Giant) in WCW because he was too big, and then you tore your quad because of it.
Bah Gawd!!! That Batista is an Animal!!! - JR
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Maze_ posted...
Stover46 posted...Maze_ posted...show hidden quote(s) Because Styles has shown he can also do good matches without relying on high spots if he needs to |
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Choreographed, ballet-like "wrestling" has always looked stupid and unrealistic. The cruiser weights in WCW managed to make what they did look brutal and realistic. With modern wrestling you can see next move coming a mile away.
Don't make me angry. You won't like me when I'm angry.
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Maze_ posted...
Stover46 posted...Maze_ posted...show hidden quote(s) Did you watch any of AJ's matches in WWE?
You're not funny and nobody likes you.
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Styles is one of the most psychologically sound people in Wrestling today, and only psychology-illiterate viewer wouldn't notice. Also hes 40 and still pretty damn healthy.
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They both have a point. I love high spots but is incredibly detrimental to the health of the performer and most of the time it looks so unrealistic that its hard to suspend disbelief.
Look at matt hardy. Thousands of top rope leg drops, now he can barely walk. How Jeff can walk is a miracle. Seth Rollins is going to be just like that in 15 years. AJ styles is different, he's a freak of nature, the fact he can perform the way he does at his age is extraordinary but when he's in his 50s he's going to be like Matt Hardy too. I love high spots, and I feel if a performer wants to do it and can do it no one has the right to tell them they shouldn't. But those two old guys aren't wrong, a lot of the time it looks entirely too fake and in the next 15-25 years most of these guys are going to be damn near paralyzed.
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AJ Styles used to be a spot monkey in his first years but soon showed good wrestling ability and kept improving
and that topic reminds me of the Canadian Destroyer
You can only win if you dare!
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The Popo posted...
If you can't figure out a way to entertain people without killing yourself then maybe you need to get out the business. That's why they're all running around here with (broken) hips and all weird looking and stuff like that. I ain't got none of that.' ~ Hillbilly Jim Hillbilly Jim was over as fuck back in the day. Wrestling has redneck roots
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snoochtonooch posted...
The Popo posted...If you can't figure out a way to entertain people without killing yourself then maybe you need to get out the business. That's why they're all running around here with (broken) hips and all weird looking and stuff like that. I ain't got none of that.' ~ Hillbilly Jim This. He was way over. For the record they absolutely have a point. The sheer amount of injuries that people are suffering now in wrestling proves that. On top of that, when you have the entire roster doing these suicide dives etc, how are the 205 guys supposed to get over? They're basically just smaller guys with less (if any) charisma wrestling the same way the 'bigger' ones do. At least in WCW it was restricted to the cruiser division and it helped them to get over.
Man is like a piece of cheese...
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I agree to an extent. At least with the spots where its very clear that guys are helping each other through movements. I understand having to suspend belief for some stuff but when you watch a match where things like that happen, I have no interest in that.
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The Popo posted...
If you can't figure out a way to entertain people without killing yourself then maybe you need to get out the business. That's why they're all running around here with (broken) hips and all weird looking and stuff like that. I ain't got none of that.' ~ Hillbilly Jim This. Even when I was a stupid kid I thought he was the worst. He never did anything - I don't even remember seeing him wrestle.
Jerry, it's Frank Costanza!!! Mr Steinbrenner's here George is dead - call me back!!!!
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Did any of you read it? TC is clearly illiterate, they aren’t slamming guys like Punk, Bryan, Styles, etc. like he’s claiming. They are specifically talking about spot monkeys. People who can’t wrestle for shit but get over by flying around.
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Gnash considers walking to be a careless and strenious move. He tried it once and tore his quad. Never again he said.
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Most up and comers use this style just to get over and then slowly start to tune it down as they get more and more over and can get away with a "less is more" style. This isn't new.
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Terra-enforcer: "You were right. I was wrong. I'm a filthy welcher." |
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They both make good points but AJ (in WWE) is a bad example.
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Dynedux posted...
They both have a point. I love high spots but is incredibly detrimental to the health of the performer and most of the time it looks so unrealistic that its hard to suspend disbelief. I remember years ago on fear factor, Jeff was saying something along the lines of Matt’s legs being to muscular or shit and that’s why he can’t bent his legs or walk normally lol.
Bang. ~ The Punisher
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Colonel_Snitsky posted...
Dynedux posted...They both have a point. I love high spots but is incredibly detrimental to the health of the performer and most of the time it looks so unrealistic that its hard to suspend disbelief. Yeah I remember one of the old VHS documentaries WWE made on the hardys talking about this. I don't remember quite what it is Matt has but there is something wrong with Matt's legs, always has been. He can't bend his knees properly or run that fast. Apparently this is why he made his finisher a leg drop (now his signature) because his natural sit out for a leg drop spreads his legs really far apart and made it look different than everyone elses.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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Yes, he has weird musculature in his knees that cause them to bend outward, that is a fact. However wrestling has ruined him, as back then he could still walk just fine, now he looks like a 70 year old man. By his own admission he wrestled with completely blown knees (partially torn MCL and a disintegrated ACL) until he couldn't anymore.
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ThexFury posted...
Nash shouldn't be talking. You can't say high spots are dangerous when people told you not to power bomb Big Show (The Giant) in WCW because he was too big, and then you tore your quad because of it. Wtf are you on about? Firstly Nash has said himself that he didn’t want to powerbomb the Giant at Souled Out ‘98 but the Giant insisted. Nash noted that the Giant had gained a lot of weight since the first time he did it and said that he hurt his back after the botched attempt. Secondly Nash tore his quad in WWE in 2002 in a multi-man tag match where the Big Show was on his team. IIRC Nash tore his quad by simply tripping/miss-stepping over a downed wrestler.
(edited 3 days ago)
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Maze_ posted...
Colonel_Snitsky posted...Dynedux posted...show hidden quote(s) I remember when I was younger my sister would always point out that he was bow-legged.
Incom65 posted...
We've had a main event heel who thinks he's a face for years now. His name is John Cena. |
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Idk does Nash understand that big guys and little guys can do different things?
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Figures this board would like a couple of sucky blowhards like The Young Bucks.
What is with the PWB having increasingly low standards when it comes to ring work, mic skills, etc.? |
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They got a point but it's not just a black or white situation. High flying spots can add something to a match ("Can't believe he goes THAT far to win a match") but it shouldn't be overdone during a match. It's impressive when wrestlers can keep up the spots and I really respect the shape they're in to pull it off but when high spots are all you do it loses it's impact. It also makes it harder to suspend the disbelief.
Just look at those dives between the ropes a lot of WWE stars do. It is a great looking move but since a LOT of wrestlers do it A LOT it loses all of it's impact for me. It seems contrived nowadays. This also leads to high flyers needing to do even more crazy stunts to stand out, eventually taking a big toll on their bodies. TLDR: High Flying spots are awesome but when used all the time they lose impact.
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Vlugge_Japie posted...
They got a point but it's not just a black or white situation. High flying spots can add something to a match ("Can't believe he goes THAT far to win a match") but it shouldn't be overdone during a match. It's impressive when wrestlers can keep up the spots and I really respect the shape they're in to pull it off but when high spots are all you do it loses it's impact. It also makes it harder to suspend the disbelief. WWE should take note of this, but they won't.
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Kevin Nash can kindly fuck off into Irrelevance.
I'll get back up for good this time and I ain't comin' down...
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Smackdown rating's have been way up since AJ became Champion again, his merch is also a top WWE seller. Speaking of top merch sellers, The Young Bucks, along with other Bullet Club members are sellers in the stores, more than most WWE stars.
So, whatever AJ or the Young Bucks/similar talent are doing, works for today's world of wrestling.
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Could be worse, they could be dead from drug overdoses or their hearts exploding from drug use like the last generation is.
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Maze_ posted...
Meanwhile in NXT and Indy Feds around the world, the new idea of how to become big appears to be 'Add more flips and crazy s*** that makes people go WOW while you jump through tables onto your head' nxt isnt about flips. nxt is wwe style wrestling with logical booking and feuds with payoffs. look at the history of the nxt title and you have two guys who were flippy and they toned back a lot in wwe and made every flip they did mean something. nxt has never been about flips or hardcore wrestling. the only time they do hardcore stuff is when the feud calls for it and its always stuff you can see in wwe. smarks wont admit it but nash and jim are right. the funny thing is smarks used to have that same opinion but something changed. we live in a world where smarks praise teddy hart and act like hes changed his style. nope he is the same teddy hart he has always been but weve reached the point where flips for the sake of flips and no selling is cool. fact of the matter is with each passing year moves mean less and less and its all about how many cool moves you can do. when you see a flipping piledriver on the apron in a top indie promotion not mean anything more to the match than a fucking suplex does then you know you have reach peak get as much cool shit in as I can. as amazing as okada is he is destined for a neck fusion surgery before he is 40 and the fact is he isnt one of those dangerous type of flipping workers. somewhere along the way moves having actual meaning died off. flips can have meaning but the way they are used today is just about looking cool. selling a serious leg injury? fuck that I need to get my super cool springboard moves in. |
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Old wrestlers complain about new wrestlers take 1000
Kevin Nash was only a good promo who had meh matches and even stupider stories in WCW. Complain all he wants but i'd rather watch Will Ospreay vs Marty Scurll over any Kevin Nash match any day. He was riding the coat tails of Hall, Michaels, and Hogan his whole career.
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JoCrazy posted...
Smackdown rating's have been way up since AJ became Champion again, his merch is also a top WWE seller. Speaking of top merch sellers, The Young Bucks, along with other Bullet Club members are sellers in the stores, more than most WWE stars. Did you actually read what Jim and Nash said or did you read it and say “yeah, the bucks and Styles can’t wrestle for shit and are just flips, they’re right”? Everyone should have read the quotes in the OP and called TC on his shitposting. Instead everyone is having a circle jerk bashing Jim and Nash for something TC made up.
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CM Punk - Was asked to stop doing the diving Elbow because it was wrecking his body, refused because he needed it to stay over. That and other high spots left him laundry list of injuries including a broken back he was not even aware of. Left his body so wrecked that he cant even fight anymore.
What part of your ass did you pull this from?
Noob killah
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TERRA_RYZlN posted...
CM Punk - Was asked to stop doing the diving Elbow because it was wrecking his body, refused because he needed it to stay over. That and other high spots left him laundry list of injuries including a broken back he was not even aware of. Left his body so wrecked that he cant even fight anymore. http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/PunkTakedown_lthsny.gif 
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
- Boards
- Pro Wrestling: WWE
- Hillbilly Jim and Kevin Nash downtalking high flying like AJ Styles/Young Bucks
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